@ChrisTalleras @rgggn how do artists get paid for their work if you're using funkwhale?

@kitdarko @rgggn I'm not sure as I haven't used it yet, I'm waiting for glocal's instance to be up. But each instance could potentially have their own rules for stuff and I would imagine it is like with many visual artists now that it goes through donations, crowdfunding, maybe forms of adds and funkwhale would then be the platform for people to discover and listen to your music. Basically soundcloud but not not having user closed to soundcloud users.

Maybe @funkwhale has some additional info?

@ChrisTalleras @rgggn @funkwhale from what I saw of it, it seemed like anyone could share their music collection with anyone else, which seemed like a recipe for piracy (I hate that term, but…)

It would be amazing if it was like a federated bandcamp, but IDK what is stopping people from uploading music that they didn't make.

@kitdarko @rgggn @funkwhale Personally I'm not really a copyright kind of person/artist, but there definitively should be credit where credit is due, which I feel can be a real problem. But I also feel that is really a problem with the internet and not funkwhale. But the nice thing with instances is that they can have moderators that keep things in check. And it is really up to each instance what rules and such they want to uphold, not really funkwhale as a whole.

@ChrisTalleras @rgggn @funkwhale Ideally we would abolish copyright, but until we've abolished capitalism & can ensure people who want to create can still live comfortably, I'm not sure it's viable - it's a tool that's often abused, but it *is* one of the only ways we have of ensuing artists are rewarded for their efforts. Maybe liberapay (etc.) with CC0 would work, but IDK how much people would give.

And good point. Banning users for ripping people off makes sense, connecting likeminded users.

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn in a nutshell:

- An instance library is available to all its users
- Users cannot upload to the library, unless they have the permission
- Other instances must request access to another instance library before accessing the audio files. Access can be revoked at any time
- Instances owners have to decide of the policy they want to enforce
- There is no funding/payment/contribution system built in Funkwhale right now (more on that in next toot)

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn now, I'm not denying creators the right to earn a living from their work. the fact is, I'm thinking a lot right now about this specific issue (as in multiple hours a week).

My (@eliotberriot) point of view is that we can't have all of this:

1. Decentralization
2. Paying for content
3. DRM-free content

You can have one, two but never three at the same time. Either there is technical impossibility or lack of incentive to achieve all of this.

2/

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot

Binding payment to content access means you have to keep track of who payed what. This is not possible in a federated/decentralized model, as there is no single source of truth.

You can try implementing some weird DRM stuff that will take care of that, but good luck. And it has all the usual privacy/cost/proprietary software issues.

3/

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot

The donation model is much more elegant, simpler and efficient imho: less expensive (both financially and technically, as there are less things to check, less data to store, less intermediary).

But donations have their painpoints too:

- how do you now where to send your money?
- creators may not use the same payment platform as you
- managing that manually for each and every creator is a nightmare

4/

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot

I really think we miss something to automate the boring stuff with donations system. If we have that, it will be much, much more easier for everyone to support creators.

And one more step against capitalism/competition, because it will be a system based on trust/goodwill, vs repression of sharing and wealth

5/

@funkwhale @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot Thank you, this has been very enlightening. And I agree, seems like it is heading towards this direction with external support/subscription services everywhere else anyway. I'm planning to join Glocal's instance when it is properly up. Thanks for your work man 🙌 🙌

@ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot this is were I am these days. I want to work on that project. It is way bigger than Funkwhale (which is already quite a huge beast, pun intended).

Most of the components to make this possible already exist or are technically doable. We probably need some kind of standard on top of that as well.

I lack time, resources, experiences and probably skills to work on this, but I've started already :)

6/6

@funkwhale @ChrisTalleras @kitdarko @rgggn @eliotberriot
The contradiction is in attempting to publish (i.e. make publicly available) what is not truly meant to be public (i.e. retain private ownership in some abstract sense).

The way to resolve this contradiction is to ask for payment at the point of creation, not at distribution. Once it's public, it's infinitely out of your control.

@trwnh @funkwhale @ChrisTalleras @rgggn @eliotberriot so, crowd-fund commons-licensed works?
It does solve things like Elvis' descendants sitting pretty making bank from things he did decades ago.